Wednesday Night #915
September 15, 1999
THE INVITATION
Dr. Margo Somerville Couch speech
Repeat at 33 Rosemount Ave
THE INVITATION
Note the somewhat mystical date/Wednesday Night number relationship. Our Wednesday 915, will be held on the 15th day of the ninth month. Therefore it behooves us to offer a particularly intriguing subject.
Luckily, we can do just that.
Dr. Margo Somerville, recently returned from a triumphant appearance at Couchiching, will be with us to discuss bioethics, and more particularly Human embryo "pharming". To prepare for this, see the Wednesday-Night.com web site click here
(or simply click on Margo's picture above)to read her excellent piece in the National Post of August 16th:
Human embryo 'pharming'
We have a power no generation
has ever possessed -- the power to
alter the essence of life itself
How will society respond to the expansion of knowledge and intimation of immortality? What is the nature of ethical behaviour? Will shared values and goals reduce humanity’s vulnerability to manipulation? Are there themes in human culture that transcend science and technology?
The cover story of TIME magazine of September 13 adds more food for thought e.g. "Smart Genes ... whether we should use genetics to make people brainier" see also genetics
Take a good dose of the smart gene to join us this Wednesday.
DAVID AND DIANA NICHOLSON
915
THE SALON
Jill Huguessen introduced her guest, Susan Reid who, after a number of years in bio-medical research, has returned to University to obtain her doctorate in marketing at Concordia.
Bioethics, cloning and the debate
A brief humourous introduction of the evening's principle topic came in a clip from Mark Russell which was immediately followed by a fast-paced video montage of some of Dr. Margo Somerville's television interviews over the years. Margo was then invited to present her thoughts on some of these issues. As advertised, she did not disappoint!
Since humans began cross-breeding cattle to increase milk or beef production, or cross-fertilizing crops to create strains resistant to disease, Man has in effect, been tampering with the process of natural selection, causing some strains to die off at the expense of others.
Me Jill Hugessen |
Science has moved ahead breaking down all religious and legislative barriers over time. What was once considered totally unacceptable, such as the anatomical examination of a human corpse has become routine. More recently, abortion has moved from the realm of the criminal to that of common practice. Until now, no one has questioned the ethics of this process.
What has changed with genetic engineering is that in using the "Dolly" technique the process has been speeded up to the point that humans can now use these procedures which can rapidly produce unpredictable results, without a defined set of ethical guidelines.
Margo illustrated the rapidity of change by describing what occurred on a flight earlier this year to Budapest where she was to speak at a conference on this topic. The edition of the Daily Telegraph that was handed to her contained information on new cloning techniques that was not available when she prepared her speech.
Me Marie Cormie |
If the premise of survival of the species is taken out of the equation, one must ask "What is wrong with killing?" We are witnessing the deconstruction of the principle of the value of human life. The debate at the 1999 Couchiching conference revolved around this point, how a secular society can define what is inherently wrong. Without invoking religious concepts, how is it possible to debate the "goodness/evil" of concepts? A new vocabulary is required with reference, for instance, to "the human spirit".
Two principles may be used as a test for inherent wrongness.
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Respect for human life must be maintained.
- Respect for the human spirit must be maintained
Although the language resembles the religious, the debate remains secular, so that people of all beliefs and non-beliefs can in conscience, add to and join the debate in what may prove to be a rapidly escalating problem of grand proportions.
The science has already evolved to the point that there now appears to be far greater acceptance of therapeutic cloning than of reproductive cloning, but as familiarity with concepts increases, dread of the new technology decreases and acceptance follows swiftly. However, reproductive cloning presents a number of problems, not the least of which is that the technique is unable to screen out the genes for such genetically transmitted diseases as diabetes and we don't know what the consequences of cloning may be, especially when it is employed to build "super specimens. This was illustrated graphically by the example of the salmon in B.C. , bred to grow faster, it became a huge ravenous monster.
It should also be noted that "Dolly" is showing signs of physical aging. Given that she is the clone of an adult sheep, this is normal. However, the physical age of the clone does not carry with it an equivalent accumulated experience. In the case of clones, older is not wiser!
Question: Can emotional elements be cloned?
Margo's reply: Well over 50% of behaviour is genetically determined, e.g. a good, nurturing mother is genetically programmed. For the other 50%, we must still look to the influence of environment, education and experience.
She continued, citing Lee Silver's thesis that there are two emerging groups: the gene rich and the gene poor.
Competing with the genetic race is the software race. Which will come first, the first "designer baby" or the first baby with a brain implant coded with the knowledge of an "Einstein"? The prospect of either is equally frightening.
In summary, after a number of questions had been answered or debated: events are moving so fast that it is hard to draw valid conclusions at any point in time, however the outlook is basically optimistic. There is a new recognition of the commonality of humanity. As Warren Allmand pointed out, there is widespread support for Human Rights among people who have no direct experience of their abrogation. (The parallel was drawn with the Australian involvement in peace-keeping in East Timor; this was not a political, but a popular decision.)
One guest suggested that "Human Rights" means many different things to people with differing cultures and there can therefore be no common denominator to be enforced by the United Nations or any other organisation, nor should there be. This was met with vocal disagreement.
FORCED MUNICIPAL AMALGAMATIONS
Mayor Trent had participated in a three-way debate with Mayor Bourque and Head of the MUC, Vera Danyluk at noon. Each has her/his distinct vision of the future of Montreal, however in Peter's opinion, neither of his opponents had been able to specify the benefits of their proposals.
It is likely that the municipalities on the island of Montreal will be merged into a single, or a small number of new larger municipal units, The twin monologues continue without debate, without attempting to reach common ground.
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(Editor's note: see the Gazette editorial of Thursday, September 16
"Bromides don't make a cure"
Unfortunately, the provincial cabinet this week did not reject outright Municipal
Affairs Minister Louise Harel's proposal to create a fourth level of government, a
superstructure that would handle many services for Montreal and 73 of its
suburbs. Rather, the cabinet asked the minister to redraft her plan to include a new element, mergers of some municipalities.
The outcome of the Bouchard government's plan to restructure the Montreal
region will have a huge impact on the region's communities. The argument over
ideas is too important to be waged behind the closed doors of the cabinet room
and Ms. Harel's ministry. That's why a debate at a downtown church yesterday,
broadcast on CBC radio, provided an instructive opportunity to weigh the pros and cons.
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Those favouring amalgamation make the following claims:
- There are "too many" municipalities in Quebec. This is "too costly".
- After an undetermined period of time, economies of scale become evident.
- Montreal provides services to the residents of bedroom communities without remuneration.
- Cities in Canada and Europe are being amalgamated. We need to compete.
Those against amalgamation, mostly citizens and elected officials of suburban communities, reply:
- There can be no definition of optimum size of a municipality. As a general rule, the quality of municipal service is inversely proportional to the size of the city (hence, the size of the council).
- No credible studies of economies of scale have been openly published or examined.
- Fiscal problems are solved by fiscal rather than political/structural solutions.
- Wages for municipal employees would rise to meet the overly generous terms accorded Montreal employees and it is likely that the poor labour relations of Montreal with its employees would spread to any new merged areas.
- Competition for size can be disastrous. The Titanic was the largest ship of its day.
- A fundamental principle of democracy held dear by all Quebeckers, is the right of the citizens to determine their own destiny.
The probable solution:
Cut the as-yet-unborn baby in two and hope it survives, making all interested parties equally dissatisfied.
(Editor's note: in the meantime, it would appear that the Minister responsible, Mme Harel, has been told by her cabinet colleagues to back off her shrill defense of her pet theory, - the new-level-of-government plan, - and review all possible options. We may expect continuing coverage of this issue over the next months.)
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