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Salon Magazine vol 18

Oct. 20, 1999

Wednesday-Night.com
Salon Magazine vol 18

October 20, 1999

Insider Street.com
23/Apr/2001 13:54

www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/gulf.war/

Wednesday Night #920
October 20, 1999

THE INVITATION

From:
To:
Subject: Fwd: Wednesday Night October 20, 1999 #920
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:41:00 EDT
Mr. and Mrs. Nicholson,

John Bowring

Below is a copy of the invitation for #920 that I have just received.
Enjoy your remaining time in London, and a pleasant trip home.
John
We have two special guests coming to speak on the health care situation.
One who has worked as a Director of a CLSC who will maintain the argument:
How the Doctors have failed our health care system.
The other a doctor from one of the large hospitals in the city who will argue the case:
How the health care system has failed our doctors.
As you may guess, neither are incapable of nuancing their positions, but to start us rolling they will begin by representing their assigned side of the argument.
(You will note that it is not a completely authentic debate format, since it is possible to hold both of positions simutaneously.)
Markets, money, interest rates.
our own Celine Dion with Barbara Walters
the lobster fight (for once without Pariseau) and whatever other issues stir your passion. We may have some echoes of our discussion last week of child poverty and crimes by juveniles.
David Oliver , temporary host for
Diana and David Nicholson

920

THE SALON

Prof Tony Deutsch

I can report that Wednesday night #920 happened as planned, and I am attaching the minutes for your consideration and editing.
I have been in touch with Mark Roper and now have a second letter to Allan Rock on smoking addiction which should go out this week.
Trust all is well,
Gerald.
Wednesday Night in Westmount #920
20th October 1999

David Oliver chaired this session as David and Diana were still in Europe. They are expected back by the end of the week.
Brian Morel introduced his guest, Elena from St. Petersburg who works in the area of cultural studies and also produces videos.
Anna introduced Angela Go, from Beijing, who was in Anna's Aviation MBA program at Concordia. Angela thought there were tremendous opportunities in the aviation business in China, especially for pilot training.
David O. introduced the two doctors who were present to discuss the health care system. Dr. Devina was from the Montreal Children's Hospital and specialized in anesthesia. Dr. Saul Panofsky is Director of the CLSC in St. Louis de Parc.
A special note was made of Herb Bercovitz's 53rd wedding anniversary and best wishes sent to Herb and Miriam, his wife, from the group.
AC CP Onex
David showed a video on the latest development in the Onex - Air Canada saga. Robert Milton of Air Canada has put forward an offer today. With the support of the CIBC, Lufthansa and United Airlines the new offer to shareholders was $12 a share compared to the $8.50 from Onex. The new offer included the purchase of Canadian Airlines and the plan to run it as a separate airline - and basically treat it as a charter operation. The real reason behind this appears to be for Air Canada not to avoid absorbing the debt and commitments of Canadian Airlines.
John Ciaccia pointed out the political dimension, saying that the government likes the Onex offer and is concerned about the next election and the impression that letting Canadian go bankrupt would create in the West. The government has the option of presenting any offer in a different way and supporting the one it likes. The Mulroney government bailed out Canadian with a $50 million injection of funds, but the current government does not want to do this. Gerald Ratzer pointed out that Canadian's best assets are the trans-Pacific routes, which Air Canada covets. Canadian is technically bankrupt due to the very high lease rate they are paying on their aircraft, and also the huge management fees being paid to American Airlines. John re-iterated his point - do not underestimate the politics of the situation.
Please seeAir Canada vs Onex latest with an opinion piece by Marc Lalonde Waving the flag and the 10% rule?
East Timor

David Oliver

The topic then turned to East Timor, with David asking - "How should the UN respond?" The actions of the Indonesian over the last 40 years have been pure imperialism. It was suggested that the events of the last couple of months have actually been set up by the UN vote for independence and the riots and civil war could have been forecast. It was agreed that the UN rescue forces could have deployed faster. Brian raised the point about Universal Human Rights and who judges internal conflicts. Should the UN have a worldwide police force?
Gulf War
Next the Gulf War Syndrome was discussed in light of new revelations that an anti-nerve gas "vaccine" called PV may be the cause of the problems. Dr. Devina pointed out the PV is not a vaccine as it is a 30mg pill taken every 8 hours. Hon. Colonel Trent pointed out that the soldiers have the John Wayne image and go in and do the job. However, the senior military and the US people in general have no desire for a repeat of Vietnam, with 52,000 killed. The discussion pointed out that with CNN and modern telecommunications the full horror of war is on our TV screens on a daily basis. However, during both world wars there were no films of soldiers being killed being broadcast, and the horrific side was contained by the military. This raises the problem of what is the ethical position of the military in a democratic society.
"system has let down doctors"
Next on the agenda was the medical debate. Dr.Devina was asked to put forward the case that "The health care system has let down the doctors", while Dr. Saul was asked to address the case that "the doctors have let done the health care system". Devina said the nurse's strike over the summer highlighted her proposition, where the nurse have low salaries and poor working conditions. Also the buildings are old and decaying and this adds to the inefficiencies. These conditions have just added to a stressful situation and a root cause for why many of the best and brightest nurses and doctors leave the country once they are qualified.
Dr. Saul started by saying there is a real dearth of resources. He also commented that he thought a two-tier system is a red herring and will increase the problems, with more and more doctors working outside the main system. He pointed out the health and education now take up 55% of the provincial budget. The Quebec MDs salary scales are the worst in the country with the exception of the Maritimes. MDs in a CLSC earn $85,000 per year while those in private practice have an upper limit of $230,000 from which they will pay about one third to cover their infrastructure (staff, space, and facilities). On a video we were shown a clip from Richard Evans, a medical economist who has studied doctors and their desires in relation to what they want to earn. There appears to be a strong correlation between this desire and how hard they work (and how much they earn). Government policy does not support group practices.
Dr. Devina stated that the infrastructure is underdeveloped. They are not enough GPs and as a result patients go to Emergency with minor problems which a GP could solve. Saul commented that the CLSC do not have the same continuity of care that a GP can provide, however, the CLSC concept was good.
At this point Dr. Mark Roper arrived and joined the discussion. He confirmed most of the medical cost data that had been previous presented. As had to leave David thanked her for her contribution to the evening. Mark continued by saying the cost of a medical intervention was about $130 at a CLSC but only $40 in a doctor's office. One reason is that CLSC MDs only see 3 to 4 patients per hour as part of their controlled workload.
It was pointed out that the Quebec government is driving for a balanced budget at the expense of health care and education. The government is placing its needs and goals ahead of those of the patients. In Ontario 35.6% of the provincial budget is spent on health care while in Quebec it is only 25.9%.
China
The discussion then moved on to China and the first visit of a Chinese Prime Minister (Jiang Zemin) to the UK. During this visit he was bombarded by Free Tibet activists, despite very strict and forceful intervention by the British police. Anna commented that she had visited Tibet in 1970. From the Chinese point of view, Tibet was a part of China since the Dung Dynasty and it has invested heavily in Tibet by building roads. In all, Tibet is a drain on the Chinese economy. It was pointed that Tibet has a feudal system and has a very harsh social and political environment, even though some westerners have romanticized the region.
Lobster problem
At this point Jacques Clement arrived and we turned to the lobster problem on the East Coast. The decision coming down from the Supreme Court could have been predicted, but the government was caught off guard. In general, the government has many serious problems with the natives across the country. The Niska Treaty is due to be signed this year - the largest of its kind and will set a precedent for other settlements. The average Canadian income is $34,000, while that of a native is $9,000.
The Economy
Jacques then gave his in-depth and excellent review of the economy, which he said, is roaring ahead. In the States the GDP is growing at 3 to 4% while in Canada it is more like 4 to 5%. Canadian exports are strong with a $3.6 billion trade surplus. US housing is weakening because of rising mortgages, but consumer spending is on the rise. Unemployment is low at 4.2% in the US and 7.5% here. Inflation is at 2.6% in the US and 1.8% in Canada. The expectation is the US Fed to tight the interest rate by 0.25% in November. The bond market is deteriorating with the 30-year long term bond yielding 6.35% and may move to 6.5%. Canada has the strongest economy of the G7 and this will improve as commodities (except oil) rise.
The evening closed with Brian thanking Saul for his insight and wisdom. David Oliver thanked Jacques for his usual excellent economic review.
Notes by Gerald Ratzer
23rd October 1999
Monday 18 October 1999 P. E. Trudeau turns 80 today (saved)
Force of ideas, force of will L. IAN MACDONALD Pierre Trudeau's life and times,
HOW TO SURVIVE A HEART ATTACK WHEN ALONE in our medical file.

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Notes by Herbert Bercovitz
Edited by Diana Thébaud Nicholson

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