#923 Honourable Lucienne Robillard

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Wednesday-Night.com
Salon Magazine vol 18

Nov 10, 1999

Lucienne Robillard

Wednesday-Night.com
Salon Magazine vol 18

November 10, 1999

Simon Potter

THE INVITATION

NEXT WEDNESDAY-NIGHT
#923
November 10, 1999

by Herbert
Bercovitz
See His show Nov 18 to Jan 2

Lucienne Robillard

This week we are pleased to have as our guest, the Member of Parliament for Westmount-Ville-Marie and President of the Treasury Board, the Honourable Lucienne Robillard, P.C.

New Treasury Board Stories

Madame Robillard has asked that we examine the following issues:

The process of budget making (does the process work, is it understood by the citizens, should the government set targets for its debt reduction...?)
Tax relief and reform (given the projected growing fiscal surpluses, how might Canada improve its tax system?)
Social infrastructure (what more should governments do to further strengthen Canada's social infrastructure? What are the priorities for new or renewed social investment?)
New economy (what should the government do to ensure Canadians benefit from the growth of the Internet and new technologies?)
Productivity (how can the government improve the standard of living? What role do economic growth and enhanced productivity play in this process? What can government do to enhance productivity?)

Peter F. Trent

Out Mayor Peter Trent will point out some of the things Ms Robillard has done for Westmount. Many Councillors have told us that she has turned up for every event she was invited to and has given much support. Councillor Nicolas Matossian [Winner in Ward 3] has some thoughts to share with us, including deLavigne?

The cast of Wednesday Night experts will include, among other luminaries:

Marianopolis Professor George Archer (formerly of Bank Credit Analyst) with guest Tom Naylor, author of "Hot Money"; a great subject for another Wednesday-Night.

Prof Tony Deutsch

Professor Tony Deutsch on the budget and pensions,

Guy Stanley

Guy Stanley on Free Trade issues;

Jacques Clément

Jacques Clément on the role of the Central Bank, the debt and the economy of Canada

Martin Barnes

Emphasizes debt paydowns and tax cuts over public spending and "the last thing I would do would be to start a new entitlement program (e.g. national child care). The history of such programs is that they become vast black holes of spending."

The best thing that the government can do is to create a favorable environment for the private sector to prosper. This means relatively low taxes, stable inflation (the Bank of Canada's job) and minimum state intervention and regulation. If it does this, then it does not need to worry about how to make industry competitive - companies will take charge of that issue themselves. If it makes sense to invest in computers, then companies will do it. The government does not need to get involved.

The main message therefore is to minimize government involvement with decisions that are best left to the private sector. Unfortunately, this does not seem to be a popular message in Canada, which has become the last bastion of socialism in the western world.

Simon Potter immediate past-President of the Federal Liberal Riding Association. notes that the local Liberal association will present a resolution at the Hull Convention that a meaningful contribution be made out of the budget surplus to reduction of the debt.

Simon Potter

Some more thoughts on this Wednesday's topic.

Julius Grey

A part of budget making is deciding what we will NOT spend money on. On what will we reduce or eliminate spending?

The simple fact of having more breathing room these days does not mean that no spending item has to be reduced.

How will the federal government respond to the Bouchard allegation that all federal budgetary surplus is theft?

We understand that the Westmount-Ville-Marie Liberal association will present a resolution at the Hull Convention that a "meaningful contribution" be made, out of the budget surplus, to reduction of the debt. Does the Westmount constituency wants real reduction, not just per capita or per-GDP reduction of the debt? What might "meaningful" mean...?

John Ciaccia

It is likely impossible to leave the Air Canada/ONEX/Canadian et.al. business out of the discussion. Is the cost of the past weeks not that

a) Canadian has wasted time which would have been better spent looking for a realistic alternative;
b) Air Canada has now two large shareholders (United and Lufthansa) with which it would otherwise not have had to deal? c) Does Control of who can buy stock in a Company have any effect on its price or value? FIRA reduced the price of stocks ... the 10% rule?? ..rather own 40% of a profit than 100% or 10% of a loss! [in this case it was useful]

Should the caucus not be told that the "terrible three" are not alone, but have widespread support among individuals, not simply the media?

Robin Wohnsigl VP AC

AC + CP Air August 25, 1999 #912 T/O Air Canada and Canadian by ONEX. with Robin Wohnsigl vp Guy Stanley. ..

David and Diana Nicholson

Whilst having no pretense that there will be unanimity, we look forward to this opportunity for Wednesday Night to present our Member, the Minister, with wisdom, wit and novel ideas.

Lucienne Robillard Mme Robillard seeks suggestions regarding what Paul Martin should do with the budget surplus. [must read]

'Spectacular' $621B has been paid in interest on debt It will take two centuries to wipe out the national debt at the current pace ...The total amount paid in interest will keep increasing at an annual rate of $40-billion until the federal government decides to pay down the $576-billion national debt more aggressively.

Friday, November 05, 1999 Jack Mintz, pres. C.D. Howe recommends a reduction in federal-provincial corporate tax rate from 43% to 30%, to make Canada more internationally competitive.
Canada to have second-highest business tax in OECD: report 'Few advantages' to create jobs ...When Germany implements a plan to reduce taxes from 52% to 38% in 2000, only Japan's corporate tax rate of 48% will remain higher than Canada's,

923 THE SALON

Wednesday Night November 10, 1999 # 923

PROLOGUE

Guests were invited to view Herb Bercovitz's magnificent stone sculpture and were reminded that the vernissage of his exhibition "Call of the Stone" Will be held on Thursday, November 18th in the Gallery at Victoria Hall at 6:00 p.m. The exhibition will continue until January 2, 2000.

Wednesday Evening November 10, 1999 was a remarkable one indeed. Well over thirty individuals filled the Nicholsons' dining room to advise the Honourable Lucienne Robillard, Member of Parliament for Westmount-Ville-Marie and President of the Treasury Board of Canada, on how the rapidly accumulating federal budgetary surplus might best be spent.

The guests represented all ranges of the political spectrum from far right to centre to far left, and a wide range of occupations including writers and artists, community activists, students, lawyers, politicians, religious leaders, teachers and professors, stock market analysts, investors and bankers.

Simpon Potter leaves LR

It is a tribute to those present, all skilled in the art of negotiation, that following the time-honoured process of defining the problem, setting the objectives, proposing a method of proceeding and testing the probable results against the problem definition, a near consensus was arrived at. Simon Potter, former President of the Westmount-Ville-Marie Liberal Riding Association, gave a gracious introduction of Mme. Robillard, thanking her for requesting the opportunity to hear from Wednesday Night on this important issue. Lachine Councillor Yves Lemire and special advisor to Mme. Robillard, was introduced with a video clip of him on the job from tonight's news.

The PROBLEM:

Our debt position makes us vulnerable. Domestically owned debt is not of as great a concern as the over thirty percent of our debt that is owned by foreigners. The interest on our debt has only been reduced by 6.5 billion dollars. Even a modest increase in foreign interest rates or reduction in value of the Canadian Dollar would cause us to become increasingly vulnerable.

Our social programs have been the victims of government spending cuts. The next generation is the future of Canada and if we do not support them in their early years, if we do not ensure that all eligible children obtain quality education, we cannot hope to compete in the world of the future to the extent that we have in the past.

As rapidly as they are being formed, young professionals are leaving for greener pastures south of the border. With a weak Canadian dollar, low starting salaries and high taxes the stampede south is depriving us of many of our best brains and potential high tax contributors. One professor pointed out that it has now reached the point where B+ students are moving to the U.S. - and earning more in their first year than their professors.

Yves Lemire

The deteriorating education system is exacerbating the problem of replacements.
(Editor's Note: In an article published this week, Nortel CEO, John Roth, pointed to access to financing, stock options as incentives and closer proximity to U.S. decision makers, along with high taxes, as reasons for Canadian executives and companies to move to the U.S.)

We somehow look upon a 7.2% unemployment rate as quite acceptable, but it is much higher and more expensive than that enjoyed by the United States, United Kingdom, and many Asian countries.

We appear to recognize the need to provide our children with the tools of the new technology for instance, by providing a more adequate number of computers in classrooms, but are not prepared to fund adequate instruction in their use, nor for that matter, adequate maintenance.

Me Marie Cormier DTN photo Me Marie Cormier

Poverty is a problem often left on the back burner, in favour of social problems which probably stem from the unacceptable poverty rate in Canada, but refuse to target the elimination of poverty in this most favoured of nations. The myth exists in some quarters that if taxes are reduced sufficiently, the money returned to the relatively wealthy will somehow trickle down to the less fortunate. This myth is easily dispelled by observing those countries in which social problems are greatest; they tend to be the poorest nations as well.

The need for job creation is a universally accepted requirement for a better Canada. The myth exists that governments create jobs aside from those created within the bureaucracy. Creative, competitive people create jobs. They are not to be found within government, whose task it should be to establish and maintain the environment attractive to such people, and within which they can exercise their creativity without unnecessary interference.

A great deal of emphasis is placed on the principle of tax reduction. A large segment of the population pays little or no tax. A large segment of the extremely wealthy no longer pay taxes in Canada. Reducing taxes, although a laudable effort should not be an objective in itself in the hope that that in itself will solve the problem, but rather, the result of other measures permitting it.

ADVICE TO MME ROBILLARD AND HER COLLEAGUES:

Trent & MME ROBILLARD

Canadians love their country, leaving only reluctantly, and take pride in the things that set Canada apart from other countries. We do not mind paying taxes if we are convinced that we are getting value for our money; We do object to paying higher taxes for diminished services. What has traditionally set us apart from the United States has been the ability to live here in security and comfort, our social safety net, - especially Health Care and other health benefits -, Education, objective jurists, Employment Insurance. While it may be argued that Health Care and Education are fields of provincial jurisdiction, federal funding has diminished over the years, as has the setting of obligatory standards required to receive that funding.

Canadians are prepared to pay higher taxes than Americans. If we were not, we would be clamoring for our government to join the United States, We are prepared to pay higher taxes as long as we receive value for the money we pay. With the deterioration of our Health, Education and Social systems, we no longer do.

PROPOSED SOLUTIONS:

Debt reduction remains a critical part of any planned budget changes, but so do increased funding for Social Programs, Education, Family Assistance, Poverty reduction. Debt reduction has no broad-based advocacy and risks being lost in the attempt to satisfy the constituents of these other programs.

Con. Yvette Biondi DTN photo Yvette Biondi

Paying down the debt, reducing taxes, increased spending on social programs are ALL important. They should not be the object of direct action, but the score card indicating the ability of the federal government to reduce bureaucracy in the same manner as every successful business enterprise has been obliged to do if it valued the continued support of the consuming public. Canada is in a new global market. It is doing well with productivity, but not that great with its consumers, we the taxpayers.

AIR CANADA/ONEX

Having thoroughly addressed those issues that Mme Robillard had identified, Wednesday-Night felt that it should also raise an issue of great concern to Mme Robillard's constituents, as well as many other citizens - the Air Canada/Onex battle.

A highly qualified participant gave a brief, all encompassing summary of the events leading up to the rejection of the Onex bid by the judiciary.

Diana Nicholson then addressed Mme Robillard directly, saying that she hoped that the Minister would take a message back to her Cabinet colleagues on this subject.

The intrusiveness of politicians, despite the lack of any perceptible coherent policy on air transportation, in a question that should have been resolved by the market, the outright dismissal of the thoughtful policy options presented by the Head of the Competition Bureau and the apparent condoning of what was to all intents and purposes an illegal bid by Onex, have all contributed to the public's anger over this issue. The vast non-productive expenditures by all parties on advertising, spin doctors and the like, are an affront to advocates of good business practices. The lack of transparency on the part of the government is an outrage. So, too, is the treatment of the three Caucus members who dared to express their opposing views - they represent many more voters than those in their constituencies. Mr. Collenette should resign and the Government should back off. Leave Air Canada to solve this problem - which, incidentally, they did not create.

This plea was greeted by general applause, indicating an extraordinary consensus of the broad spectrum of interests represented in the room.

A WORD OF THANKS

John Ciaccia thanked Mme Robillard and pointed out that despite the apparently conflicting priorities of some of the speakers, there was remarkable agreement that debt reduction should figure importantly in the allocation of the surplus. It remains only to define the acceptable percentage of the surplus to be devoted to it.

QUOTES OF THE EVENING

The combination in Canada of taxation and regulation makes it difficult to create value-added enterprises, products or services.
The best way to ensure that social programs are adequately supported is to maintain a stable economy.
We do not mind paying taxes if we are convinced that we are getting value for our money; we DO object to paying higher taxes for diminished services.
Cutting taxes is increasingly an issue of global competitiveness.
The Trickle-down effect doesn't work; increasing wealth does not create increased prosperity for the people.